Truth and Beauty

Last week I thought I was wrapping up the blog conversation on What women should wear, with my post on modesty but it turns out I have more to say on this topic. (lol no surprise to some) And I was thrilled with more comments to add to the learning-through-conversation.
This is something I learned from someone wiser than me.
When I was in bible school one teacher told me this about discipleship. She said "lead them to Jesus and let his holy spirit do his work."
She had been mentoring a young woman new to the faith, generally when this young woman came to the meeting she was dressed in what most of us would call immodest dress. The mentor did not point out that her clothing was not appropriate for a woman following Jesus, she just led her through scripture. She led the young women to learn the meaning of truth and beauty and did not just give her a "new law" to follow. Eventually this woman saw from the scripture they were studying that she needed to change the way she dressed.
This my friends is what I want to wrap up on. Learn about truth and beauty, learn it from Jesus and lead others to Jesus but don't tell them what to do, don't just lay down a new set of rules to follow. Lets encourage one another to follow Jesus very closely and open ourselves up to be taught by truth.
This song is very applicable here, at first it seemed confusing to me but I have come to love it for it's rich meaning. Be aware it is sarcastic.
New Law
by Derek Webb
Here are the lyrics or even better if you watch the youtube video

don’t teach me about politics and government
just tell me who to vote for
don’t teach me about truth and beauty
just label my music

don’t teach me how to live like a free man
just give me a new law

i don’t wanna know if the answers aren’t easy
so just bring it down from the mountain to me

i want a new law
i want a new law
gimme that new law

don’t teach me about moderation and liberty
i prefer a shot of grape juice

don’t teach me about loving my enemies

don’t teach me how to listen to the Spirit
just give me a new law

What’s the use in trading a law you can never keep
for one you can that cannot get you anything
do not be afraid
do not be afraid
do not be afraid

The artwork - I do not know the artists name but I chose this piece because of it's gray qualities and small bits of black and white - A little like the modesty conversation.

Modesty

Modesty. What is it?
The dictionary says it is keeping within measure, propriety in dress.
Here are some comments posted after my previous blog post, all your comments were very much appreciated

"As a women of God I think we should dress modestly. And what I mean by that is, is breasts, butt crack, and belly should not be showing."
"Cleavage is okay, just no nipples."
"I can't imagine that they(women of bible times)would have been showing a lot of skin."
"I would say cover up - no breast showing, or cleavage, or short shorts etc."
"I think the body is a beautiful thing and should not be "ashamed" of it."
"We live in a sexually charged culture."
"Culture determines the answer(to what modesty is)."
"We oppose oppression and lust(strict dress codes and promiscuous) as Christians."
"We also need to teach our own children how to dress modestly at a young age. If we allow skimpy tops/clothing when they are young it will be acceptable when they develop and mature."
"We can dress modestly and still be fashionable."

Interesting that everyone commented that a woman should dress modestly, yet with differing opinions as to what that means. Your comments were full of food for thought, advice and challenges. I enjoyed the comments and conversations. So we all agree on modesty but the big question remains, what? What does that mean? What does modesty look like? Can we come to a conclusion as to how long a skirt? How thin a fabric? How thick of a strap? How tight a fit? How low of neck line is appropriate? The lines and measuring could go on and on. I just don't think we can answer these questions for everyone, at least not specific answers maybe that is one reason why it's so hard to talk about this topic, it can't come to a solid conclusion. I think the one conclusion that can be drawn is that it is important to be aware of how we dress and thinking and talking and listening can lead us to be wiser. I believe that each person has to decide, with God's help, what modest means to them. And this doesn't mean we can't challenge one another, for me personally just by writing this and talking about it with people I've been challenged and grown in my understanding of how I should dress. And that means it is as my wise husband said "conversation and prayer" are key.

How should a woman dress?

"I don't know if I want to talk about this?"
"who's really entitled to talk about this stuff?"
"Should it really be an open discussion?"
"Isn't it each to their own?"
Me too, Us, yes and I don't know but I do know this ...

When I was a child my mom canned peaches every summer and she always put perfect halves into each jar, if a peach wasn't co-operating and it wouldn't halve nicely it went into the jam pot, she had high standards. In August I was at my parents for a fabulously relaxing holiday, since they live in the Okanagan I had to do it.... I got myself some peaches and I started canning. My mom was helping me and we cut those peaches any which way, small pieces, big pieces and odd shaped pieces, it didn't matter much. We started talking about the old days when it mattered what shape went into the jars and I joked with my mom that she'd lowered her standards. She said "well I guess I've gotten less picky as I've gotten older." We both agreed that there's nothing wrong with odd shaped peaches, we really don't care what their shape is because we know -they taste the same either way - really good. But the conversation continues on a different level. My mom taught me to halve the peaches, well it doesn't really matter to me so I teach my daughters that any shape is good, and in 20 years they will teach their daughters -just stuff it in the jar don't even bother with the stone. Ok so I don't really know what they'll teach their daughters and really it's just peaches but I hope you see the link to how we dress. How can us fashionable women keep from slipping down the worldly slope? We slowly, not so noticeably lower our standards and all becomes acceptable, everything if changed slow enough becomes normal. As Christians and Jesus followers what do we do? Where do we draw lines for ourselves so that we do not continue towards nothing, that is if it matters at all, maybe naked is ok? Are there really lines that can be drawn? I am not a line drawer so that'll be hard for me. What about church and the beach and at work and at the pool and running errands, do the lines move? How should a woman dress in light of living holy?

This topic needs discussion so please comment, if not just think about this question for yourself and your children and society as a whole.

Men you're also welcome to post your 2 cents. Because this topic can also affect you. What kind of standards do you think women should have?

photo by Dagobert

Women's Rights and the Bible

Women and the Bible has always been a touchy subject for some and maybe, being a women, especially one who wants to be able to stand on her own two feet, I've cringed more often than some at the words submission, subjection and silence. The words that undoubtedly comes up when talking about women and the bible. I guess you could say I am one of those that finds it a touchy subject. With a little uncertainty, knowing the many verses often quoted, I set off on the Internet wondering what I would find as I googled "women's rights and the Bible", looking for help to understand this. The big question was - what would I find? ....
I came almost at once to a site that, for me, so nicely explained things. http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_womensrights.htm From Eve to the new testament church to today. Here is the conclusion if you don't want to read the whole thing

God created both men and women in His own image and made them equal custodians of all His creation. But, because of their disobedience, God punished Adam and Eve and evicted them from the Garden of Eden. Eve's punishment was to suffer pain in childbirth and be ruled over by her husband. Jesus broke with tradition and treated women in a much more egalitarian way than was normal in the society of that time. The early Christian churches followed Jesus' lead and gave women much higher status and more privileges than was common in the rest of the world. But Paul and other Christian leaders continued to affirm the principle of a husband's family leadership and authority over his wife.

Reading this article made me feel/think several things:
1- I really love Jesus and Jesus loved women -He treated women well in his time
2- Bible time culture matters, we must know it to accurately know the meaning of a passage,
3- Our culture matters because just as Jesus worked at times with and at times against his culture, he'll still do it today, which also means changing things will happen in God's timing.
I suppose the search or study of these things isn't done, it comes to the suface in different ways at different times. But for now I was happy to find this "re"understanding and I wanted to share it with you too.